MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: It takes years to develop those contacts, it's an expensive habit to develop those contacts. It's because of a contact that he and I have over the years, that I am divulging some information.

MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: If it was yesterday's contact with, then why should I divulge you? If then your only way is by offering me an inducement, then it has to be a...the value of that inducement has to be appropriate. So, therefore, those chaps who are in the business of developing contacts, they were developing it for years. Before that, before they come and meet you, and it is that time when you don't need, when you are not asking me for anything, when you are not asking that General for Choudary...that you call him for dinner, that's the time he attends, but the result of it is, he is sitting in his place, that you tell the benefit of it is coming, not directly.

MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: But this thermal imager also as I know. It isn't getting order. I will let you know. Give me about a week's time. I will move to Bangalore now...tomorrow and from there I am off to Hyderabad. I will let you know in a week's time. Okay?

[Ahluwalia gets up and stands and moves a bit.]

LT. COL. SAYAL: Small gift.

[Sayal goes near Ahluwalia and tries to hand him Rs. 50,000, which he accepts later.]

MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: This is, this is... Sayal please. Don't be…
LT. COL. SAYAL: Okay, later. Then…

TEHELKA: Sir, I can move.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: Sorry, yes, I will.

*  *  *

By this time, we had been introduced to Major General S.P. Murgai (of the DGQA) by Colonel Sayal. General Murgai had still sometime to go to his retirement and was on leave. He explains how the procurement process goes in the Indian Army, he promises to arrange meetings with MGO Lt. General Dhillon, the personal secretary of Minister of State Hiren Pathak and others.

MAJOR GENERAL S.P MURGAI: On that short-listing then they go in for new commercial bids. Okay? Now there you can…. So this is what is going to be done. At this stage of time, money doesn't play the role here. Because whether it is MGO or whether it is Defence Secretary…. Let me tell you one thing, because I have been dealing on day-to-day basis. They play no role at this point of time, because it is the users who have to indicate their preference.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: They have to say that…this is the item, which is more suitable to us, after it has gone through the field trials. As far as the technical evaluation is concerned, it is only going to be to check conforms to specifications; as per the specifications laid down or as per the manufacturers' specifications. Once the company is short-listed…okay? That is the time when some influence can be exercised.

*  *  *

TEHELKA: Before short-listing, you have to meet these people?
MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Which people?

TEHELKA: Sir. One is the MGO. You have to meet these people - MGO and PPO and DGQA.
MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: See, it is like this, at the moment DGQA doesn't….

TEHELKA: Okay, he told me DGQA is over.

TEHELKA: That is not necessary now. But two people are important.
MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: See, at the moment DGQA is not in picture, na?

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Don't go and knock at the wrong door.
LT. COL. SAYAL: No, I am…he straight away contacted me.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Because he is not in the picture. They have not received the sample, then where is the question of technical?

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Now as far as the MGO is concerned, let me tell you one thing. On 27th he is going abroad. His son is in America. He is going for one-month leave.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: He is going for one-month leave.
TEHELKA: Before we can?

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: For one month he will be out. He will be leaving on the 27th. He is here till Diwali, because he wants Diwali gifts. Only a fool can go before that. Okay? He is going on the 27th, on his private visit. Fine? That's what it is. As far Deputy MGO is concerned, let me also give another input. He is already…he is waiting to move out. I think by end of November or 1st week of December, he should be going as a…
LT. COL. SAYAL: Okay sir, MGO is also retiring in April.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: In end of March. See point is, you get some more information. The point is very clear. When, let us say, I approach…let us say, on your behalf, he may talk to me.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: He may talk to MGO. What do I tell him, "Sir, take this?"

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Okay? On what basis? So, what I mean is let little…more through your contact, you have to get the information, what exactly is the present position of file.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Okay. That means the request of proposal which have come, they must be considering that.
LT. COL. SAYAL: That's right, sir.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: So if some eliminations they have done, something they must have analysed, that this is available, and this is not. If that analysis is done, then what is their analysis regarding you?

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: You understand?
TEHELKA: I got it, it got it. I can follow that.

*  *  *

TEHELKA: We submitted Ranjit Issar.
TEHELKA: IAS. Ranjit Issar, Joint Secretary, Ordnance. Procurement.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Now, if you are wanting to meet MGO, I can arrange a meeting. That's all. And then you can talk whatever you like. That can be done. Okay? So that's all for….
LT. COL. SAYAL: You can arrange wherever you like.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: His office.
LT. COL. SAYAL: Whichever is the place. It will be difficult in the office.

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Everythying is possible.
LT. COL. SAYAL: No, otherwise we have to take care. Take care, I mean…

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: He'll inform himself.
LT. COL. SAYAL: He'll inform himself?

MAJ. GEN. MURGAI: Who else do you want to meet? PPO?
TEHELKA: And Maj. Gen. P.S.K. Choudary, Additional Director General, Weapons and Equipments.

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