TEHELKA: Please, fifty thousand is there.
BRIG. IQBAL SINGH: What I'm saying…
LT. COL. SAYAL: Sir, it's like this, introduce the
MGO to us. Oh sorry, introduce Choudary and then we will look
Lt. Colonel Sayal also takes us to Major General Manjit
Director General Quality Assurance. Gen. Ahluwalia starts
then in no time is swinging deep in it. Though Ahluwalia's
in a little later, he advises West End on the matter.
MAJ. GEN. MANJIT SINGH AHLUWALIA: Currently they are
taking from a French company already.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: See what happens is, understand
the systems. Before we start procuring, you carry out user
trials. Having done the user trial, we start the procurement
process, which has started. There is already a linkage. If
you think anybody is doing it without linkages, it is stupid
to believe. The linkage is there. It has started, it has been
trial evaluated, found successful, it's been booked. Now why
should that man put in a new bloody spoke?
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: It's already coming in. I doubt
it, you can try it. Gen. P.S.K. Choudary is the person. Why
should he do it, tell me?
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: See, it's already started.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: Fine, no problem, I'm dealing
with it in the sense…. You see, I don't do this procurement
ex-import. That is capital work that is done by the ADG, W.E.
Once it is introduced item, then we will place the indents.
Then we will do it. Even if it is imported it will be done
by PPO. If it is indigenous, we will do it here. As of now,
it is still a W.E. item, and it is not likely. And at this
juncture…let me tell you… Organisationally, not talking of
the other benefits which you are suggesting for that person
which he would also be getting from the other person. Even
organisationally, they would not go about this task. It doesn't
suit the organisation.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: You have to create a network and
let me tell you it has got, you know, because the carrot at
the other end is big for everybody. You need very deep pockets.
Let's be very clear about it.
LT. COL. SAYAL: No, that is understood. That is the
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: So if you want it, if you have
that type of a thing only then venture into it…because you
know why? Now understand, if you are talking about a deal
which is 20 crore here, 60 crore there, make a profit of 5
crore, saala, if you come to my house to meet me on
Diwali, you can't talk without bringing Blue Label. If you
are talking of bloody making a couple of crores of rupees,
you can't give me bloody Black Label also? Isn't it? Let's
be very clear about it.
TEHELKA: True fact, sir.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: So, if, when you are talking big,
you got to also project big. You have had access to me because
you know me [pointing towards Sayal]. If under normal
circumstances you want to meet with me tomorrow, you say…you
are talking in terms of making a deal of a couple of crores,
you can't tell me to come and have a meal with you at bloody
LT. COL. SAYAL: That's right, very right.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: Then you have to say, "Sir, if
you want that person…want to meet Gen. P.S.K. Choudary…" you
say, "Sir, can we have dinner at Maurya Sheraton?"
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA (continuing): I am talking
of the bare minimum. I am talking about when you come for
Diwali, you come and say, "Sir, good evening, sir." Then you
give me bottle of fucking…bloody…
LT. COL. SAYAL: RC…Hundred Pipers...
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: You know, be clear about it. And
it's going on for donkey's years. And you're getting bloody
small bits of information out of that chap. For…in two years,
three years, a chap wants to know bloody up from there, "Yaar,
I've already invested you so much. You tell me where is the
file?" Now just to find out where the file is, and what is
the position about it, it would have cost you easily 25-30
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: I've been here now two years,
I must have met at least 35-40 people. Every other fucker
knows bloody Putin. Everybody knows George Fernandes. Everybody
knows bloody Putin, everybody knows bloody Saddam. Then they
say "get this done for me now."
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: And that…"here is a letter. I
have got agency from bloody exports." There are 25 buggers
who are carrying a letter from exports. This is big. The carrot
at the other end is one bloody deal. This Kaun Banega Crorepati
will go into fuckin' bloody… (all laugh) So, therefore,
unless you are big…people are happy…that is what I am trying
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: See it's a…it's a massive bloody
system, there is no place for friends. There is no place for
singleton. It requires very deep pockets. Nobody talks small.
I'm being very honest with you. Every single person is…name
dropping is the smallest part of the whole bloody transaction.
And I also ended up with bottles of Black Label, Blue Label
in this bloody business. Because it is easier to come and
bloody talk; as I said, if you're going to talk about a couple
of crores, even to say "good evening", you have to present
that bloody "good evening" properly.
TEHELKA: That's true, very true.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: So it's not small; you are doing
nothing, just to keep the contact alive. What do you achieve?
Nothing. Because the time spent is three years. And the moment
you show certain stinginess, that indicates that the bloody
joker doesn't have any strength in him. The bloody contact
breaks. Please understand one thing, there is a network in
the whole thing. There are 20 different people who have got
decision-making power at Stage Two can say at that particular
point in time recommend or not recommend to a particular thing.
Right? That is his authority at that stage. That authority
is two years before the final deal is struck. Okay? Today
I say I am that man. I have to say today whether I should
say "Let me…let us trial and evaluate this thing." That's
all my decision-making. That I have to say…suggest that we
include this firm for trial evaluation. Once I have included
it in trial evaluation, my utility is lost. I have no power
after this. If it is found fit or not, somebody else down
the ladder will take the decision. Now I have done my work
today. My work is done, whether you have succeeded or not
succeeded. You are telling me to write on a file "recommended
firm A, B included in the list" for some reasons which I have
to justify and do my work for a deal which is…40-50-60 crores,
now how much will you give me today to do this? After which
I have no role to play. If I have written 'yes', I have written
'yes'…you get your 60-crore deal…I want it upfront today.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: It's a Rs. 60 crore deal and it's
a very important line I have to write there. My line is written
today…I take that line…so it's a 60 crore deal, I'm giving
you a hypothetical figure, it's a 60 crore deal. How much
will you say that you have to take now, tell me? Or for what
amount should I put my neck out to write that important line?
So it's not a Maurya Sheraton dinner (all laugh). Please
understand… It can't happen as an individual with one item.
It just can't…. I am trying to tell you why it can't happen.
So you give me 10 lakh rupees. I don't know whether you get
the order or not, I am not concerned. I have done my bit and
there are 20 people in the chain like this. There is a man
who has to go and do a certain evaluation. You have to feed
him there. He does it, he doesn't do it, he writes 'no'. He
screws up the whole bloody deal. He screws up everything what
has happened up till now.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: So where do you go? Everybody
wants to aim big. You have to assess it. This is how it is.
Your organisation can do it…then go ahead but then as I told
you where it stands. And when I say deep pockets that means
bloody deep pockets. Please let's be very clear. When I say
deep pockets I mean deep pockets… It is not chicken feed,
I'm telling you at different stages, different fellows will
come into in…and a lot of people have nuisance value. I may
not be able to do anything. I might not be able to help you,
but I can ruin it. That man has got a nuisance value. That
nuisance value has to be compensated.
Our next meeting with General Ahluwalia takes place 10
days later. Here he accepts a token bribe of Rs. 50,000,
which is never delivered to him.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: General Choudary nor myself, Dhillon,
Mehta, would be…want to be seen there, just to eat food. We
go five times a week to the bloody hotels in any case. Why
should we be seen with Mr. Mathew? I don't know from before
who is the representative of X company and 10 people walking
outside seeing me.
TEHELKA: Exactly. That is a true fact.
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: It doesn't happen like that; it's
unlikely to happen. That's what I was trying to explain. It
doesn't happen like that, and those people they are big players
in this damn thing. They are...they are hosting parties every
day, not for them; there are 20 different items in the singles…in
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: There is a famous bloody arms
dealer called Mr. Chaudhary. You must have heard of him. Bloody
everywhere he roams around in a 500 SEL Mercedes. Okay?
TEHELKA: He is a retired general?
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: No, no, his claim to fame was
that his brother-in-law was a chairman of HAL...
MAJ. GEN. AHLUWALIA: …So he got into…so he got into
the all-important MiG deal. So from the MiG deal he got into
other deals. So it is a big…big game, each of these order
is worth thousands. They have people representative sitting
and just waiting. So it is a big group.